topic Re: "Black crush" in HDR content, any solution? in 1 Series

"Black crush" in HDR content, any solution?

DeeLuXe — Mon, 28 Oct 2019 13:23:24 GMT

Hi my friends. From the first day I have noticed that this phone suffers from black crush in HDR content. Playing from (internal) SONY player, VLC or Kodi, does not matter.

I've done a comparison with the Spiderman trailer that has the phone in internal memory with the same trailer on YouTube (at 1080p without HDR).

Image config: Aut. brightness off / Brightness at 50% / Image mode 'standard'.

This is the result:

Spiderman trailer 4K HDR:

Spiderman trailer 1080p (without HDR):

Spiderman trailer 4K HDR:

Spiderman trailer 1080p (without HDR):

Down or up the brightness does not affect. It is not a problem of brightness and contrasts. It is Gama problem. A bad implementation of the HDR content. The phone does not allow to modify the Gama range, the video players neither.

This is a software problem. I have contacted other people with the same phone and the same thing happens to them.

Will SONY solve it with any firmware update?

(Sorry for my english, i'm spanish)

Re: "Black crush" in HDR content, any solution?

RottenFoxBreath — Mon, 28 Oct 2019 15:37:29 GMT

Can't see an issue with hdr content to be honest, 4k or not. I use creator mode, auto brightness so you get that extra brightness when needed, and a calibrated display.

All movies look fine to me with standout ones being both blade runners.

Re: "Black crush" in HDR content, any solution?

DeeLuXe — Mon, 28 Oct 2019 15:54:25 GMT

How have you calibrated the screen?. Creator mode only reduce the color saturation, does not touch the gama range.

Could you upload any images to the phone screen? (remember: aut. brightness off / brighnetss at 50% and Standard image mode)

Compare the same HDR clip (Spiderman 4K included in phone) with another without HDR.

Here the trailer in 1080p (not HDR): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nt9L1jCKGnE

(in spanish forum, another user has the same problem with the HDR: https://www.htcmania.com/showthread.php?t=1520374)

....

What is "Black Crush"?

Re: "Black crush" in HDR content, any solution?

NunoSEN2 — Mon, 28 Oct 2019 17:52:45 GMT

Hi @DeeLuXe;

Have you tried when watching the 4K HDR trailer making pause on the video player and take a screenshot (volume down and power buttons at the same time).

Do you see any difference in the paused image of player and the picture of the screenshot? Because I can see the screenshot being much more black then the played video, and this does not happen in non HDR content.

You can also see it briefly when changing the played HDR video from landscape to portrait mode and vice-versa.

Re: "Black crush" in HDR content, any solution?

DeeLuXe — Mon, 28 Oct 2019 19:02:30 GMT

Exact. It happens the same with the screenshots.

Screenshot 4K HDR trailer:

Photo to screen (1º post). Here is not much difference, but it shows the same problem:

Screenshot 1080p clip (Youtube) without HDR:

There is a problem with HDR content playback.

Re: "Black crush" in HDR content, any solution?

DeeLuXe — Mon, 28 Oct 2019 21:33:04 GMT

SONY SUPPORT any solution for this problem with HDR content?

Re: "Black crush" in HDR content, any solution?

NunoSEN2 — Mon, 28 Oct 2019 22:15:38 GMT

Hi again @DeeLuXe;

What happens in my case, as I described, is that when I take a screenshot of the 4K HDR trailer it looks like your screenshot, but when playing the trailer the actual image while playing is somehow brighter and more close to your last screenshot (YouTube without HDR), like there is some kind of conversion when playing the video. I watched the YouTube trailer and it is similar to the video I have recorded as demo, maybe the 4K HDR version is not so bright but the difference is not very big, I can actually see some "Black Crush" like you say but nothing so serious as when taking a screenshot of the same image.

Re: "Black crush" in HDR content, any solution?

DeeLuXe — Mon, 28 Oct 2019 23:22:14 GMT

@NunoSEN2

You have set the manual brightness at 50%? (off brightness automatic)

Do you use internal sony player or vlc? VLC player defines its own brightness, different from the system.

You can upload images (photos) from the screen playing the clips (with and without HDR)? ... NO SCREENSHOTS (the screenshots differ from what our eyes see)

Re: "Black crush" in HDR content, any solution?

NunoSEN2 — Tue, 29 Oct 2019 00:24:58 GMT

@DeeLuXe;

Here is a picture taken with the demo trailer 4K HDR in 50% Brightness using the Album app player, next I used the YouTube trailer without HDR and same Brightness, don't know why but the demo trailer in dark scenes shows also some yellow tint. Also used the Standard image mode. Demo Trailer 4k HDR

Youtube trailer not HDR

Re: "Black crush" in HDR content, any solution?

DeeLuXe — Tue, 29 Oct 2019 00:56:25 GMT

@NunoSEN2 can't see the images. Upload here https://gifyu.com/ , copy the HMTL image code and insert using the HTML edit in post reply.

Re: "Black crush" in HDR content, any solution?

NunoSEN2 — Tue, 29 Oct 2019 00:59:26 GMT

Just wait a little bit more @DeeLuXe, all the images need to be approved by support staff or moderators before appearing.

Re: "Black crush" in HDR content, any solution?

DeeLuXe — Tue, 29 Oct 2019 01:59:21 GMT

Others samples:

Spiderman 4K HDR clip - 100% brightness (aut. off) - Standard image mode.

Spiderman 1080p Youtube (no HDR) clip - 100% brightness (aut. off) - Standard image mode.

**********************

Spiderman 4K HDR clip - 100% brightness (aut. off) - CREATOR image mode.

Spiderman 1080p Youtube (no HDR) clip - 100% brightness (aut. off) - CREATOR image mode.

----

In both cases (Creator & Standard modes) the 'Black Crush' is present (even with maximum brightness); the background scene is dark, the left tree is not seen and we can see that the Furia clothes are black when it is really blue.

The HDR crushes the image with black, kills the grays and intermediate tones. This is not a problem of brightness or contrast (checked), it is a bad HDR implementation (bad gamma tone).

Re: "Black crush" in HDR content, any solution?

RottenFoxBreath — Tue, 29 Oct 2019 08:41:08 GMT

This thread is pointless taking pictures with either a camera, or another phone, of the screen.

Not even close to what it would look like in real life.

Re: "Black crush" in HDR content, any solution?

DeeLuXe — Tue, 29 Oct 2019 12:06:51 GMT

@NunoSEN2

You have the same problem (green screen is because you do not ajust the white balance in camera shot).

Black crush and kill the contrast / medium tones.

Re: "Black crush" in HDR content, any solution?

DeeLuXe — Tue, 29 Oct 2019 12:12:44 GMT

@RottenFoxBreath

I asked you to take pictures (and upload) on your phone. Some problem for it?

If you "don't see anything" It is not enough for me, I want proof.

Re: "Black crush" in HDR content, any solution?

NunoSEN2 — Tue, 29 Oct 2019 12:25:01 GMT

@DeeLuXe;

The white balance is the same in both pictures (Medium-R0,G0,B0), I think the green is also some kind of problem with HDR in low brightness or the movie clip itself. With brightness at 100% there seems not to be the "green" issue.

Re: "Black crush" in HDR content, any solution?

DeeLuXe — Tue, 29 Oct 2019 12:46:05 GMT

I had no problems with the color tone taking the pictures (maybe it's because of the HDR). Anyway the problem is the crushing of black, which as you can see, you also have.

You can try with other videos that you have in HDR, you'll see that it's not just that spiderman trailer, it happens in all content in HDR.

I hope SONY solves it with a new Firmware update. Thanks for your help Nuno.

Re: "Black crush" in HDR content, any solution?

DeeLuXe — Tue, 29 Oct 2019 14:01:01 GMT

More tests!

The BSPlayer for Android not support HDR content, but can player the clips without HDR component. This means that it eliminates the gamma layer.

This is the result (same Spiderman 4K HDR clip, not youtube) at 50% brightness.

BSplayer:

VLC player (support HDR):

Re: "Black crush" in HDR content, any solution?

DeeLuXe — Tue, 29 Oct 2019 15:41:57 GMT

More test with same Spiderman 4K HDR Clip (not Youtube)

The BSPlayer for Android not support HDR content, but can player the clips without HDR component. This means that it eliminates the gamma layer.

This is the result at 50% brightness.

BSplayer (without HDR):

VLC Player (with HDR):

-----------------

BSplayer (without HDR):

VLC Player (with HDR):

--------------------

BSplayer (without HDR):

VLC Player (with HDR):

------------------------

BSplayer (without HDR):

VLC Player (with HDR):

Re: "Black crush" in HDR content, any solution?

NunoSEN2 — Tue, 29 Oct 2019 17:47:03 GMT

@DeeLuXe;

I was watching the same Spiderman trailer in 4K HDR but on Youtube and there is almost no Black Cruch (and if you increase brightness - needed for HDR content - the Black Crush is gone), so I think there might be some issue with the demo trailer that comes with the phone.