topic Re: Firmware update in Other TVs

Firmware update

gricey1 — Fri, 21 Dec 2012 09:23:43 GMT

Can Sony supply a Firmware update for my Sony Bravia to allow it to communicate with my Virgin Tivo box properly.When I switch on my TV I get a message " HDMI not available" and I have to turn off the Tivo box and on again to resume viewing. This is obviously a " handshake" problem.The model is KDL-32S3000

Message was edited by: gricey1

Re: Firmware update

Bravia55HX — Fri, 21 Dec 2012 14:48:33 GMT

Hi,

not sure what your problem is and why you would think a firmware update will fix it as im sure it wont, my TiVo works fine, its connected via HDMI 1 and i press the TiVo remote for 3 secs to turn tv on then quickly press same again to turn on the TiVo box, simple.

re check your connections and let s know if you find anything untoward.

Re: Firmware update

gricey1 — Fri, 21 Dec 2012 15:42:08 GMT

The problem is that I don't leave the TV on standby as you obviously do and if I switch it on from the "off" position I always get the message whether I have left the Tivo on or if I turn it on later. I have reduced the length of the HDMI lead down to 1 metre from the 2 metre one Virgin supplied and that doesn't help. I have all the correct setting. This is a massive problem with Sony Tvs and others .Please read the following which was posted on the Virgin website by someone who is far more technically informed than me.

It could be timing related - without getting really technical, there is likely a time limit on how long the TV has to handshake with TiVo and confirm it's a device that can display HDCP content.

If the signal is received by the TV and due to various refresh rates (listening for signal, processing signal, sending response) takes longer than the allowed time limit to send a confirmation back to TiVo, then no picture.

Getting slightly more technical, it may be something akin to this (albeit a lot faster than 1.5 seconds!):

Assuming that:

TiVo is coded exactly to spec [that isn't the HDMI spec, but one made up for this example], and it allows 1.2 seconds to get a response from the TV.
Whenever the TV actually gets the signal it takes 0.8 seconds to think about and process it before sending a response back to TiVo.

Here goes...

Every 0.25s the TV checks its HDMI inputs to see if there's an HDCP handshake request
0.05s after every check for an HDCP handshake, if there's something to send back again, the TV transmits a response.
TiVo starts broadcasting the HDCP handshake request, and starts waiting for up to 1.2s for the TV to reply.
The TV checks to see if there's an HDCP handshake request and there is.
Having received the request the TV starts processing and compiling its response.
Response compiled, the TV sends the HDCP handshake confirmation back to TiVo.

Success!
The TV sent the correct response back to TiVo within the required time, so the picture is displayed.

Fail!
TiVo didn't get a correct response in time, so no picture is sent to the TV.

I grant you this is a gross oversimplification of the process, however the general message is the same - if the TV manufacturer has messed up or been lazy in their implementation of the HDCP handshake protocol, then it might work some of the time, but not always.

In this example, you'd guarantee success by

Cutting the green stage of the process to 0.5s or less
Having the TV check for a signal every 0.1s instead of every 0.25s

TV manufacturers are trying to make as much money as possible so will cut corners wherever they can, either in hardware, software or both. It's fair to assume that they'll use similar components and/or code across their entire range of products, even across multiple manufacturers, so lazy implementations don't get discovered as readily as they should do. TiVo seem to be sticking rigidly to the HDCP spec, and this is catching out device manufacturers who haven't quite been as stringent in their implementation.

I'm not saying that TiVo is perfect because I don't know either the HDCP spec or their implementation of that spec, however given the number of people and devices for whom it works without issue, it's fair to infer that they've got it right. Also the number of people who have issues when running through an AV device or HDMI splitter which then disappear when plugged in directly to their TV seems to suggest rather strongly that it's a timing issue, related to their other devices as opposed to TiVo.

As always, hopefully this makes some sort of sense without becoming overly complex....

Re: Firmware update

Thalamus. — Fri, 21 Dec 2012 20:32:44 GMT

Hi gricey1,

welcome to Questions & Answers..:smileyhappy:

I switch my Bravia off at the plug & when I switch it on again, & if needed change the source to HDMI 1, I must admit I do not get any issues with the Tivo box being detected..:smileyconfused:

Re: Firmware update

gricey1 — Fri, 21 Dec 2012 21:23:23 GMT

Hi Thalamus, Thanks for the welcome. Maybe it's because my Bravia is 5 years old but would be reluctant to buy a new one just yet. Maybe it would be best to get a Samsung or an LG one day.

How do I change the source?

Re: Firmware update

Thalamus. — Fri, 21 Dec 2012 21:39:28 GMT

gricey1 wrote:

How do I change the source?

Hi,
on your remote press the key

which I think is just below the blue button on your remote until the you reach the option that your Tivo is connected to..

Re: Firmware update

gricey1 — Fri, 21 Dec 2012 22:29:15 GMT

Ah yes I have tried that but it still means I have to make sure I am tuned to the tv tuner when switching off the tv i.e BBC1. Then when I turn the tv back on I have to change the source back again for the Tivo. It's all a bit of a pain when we should just be able to turn the TV on and off again without messing about.